Guyana’s president and CARICOM chair Dr. Mohamed Irfaan Ali made headlines last week as a result of a contentious television interview.
The BBC series “HARDTalk” and journalist Stephen Sackur both came under fire after a clip from Friday’s program went viral. Sackur’s interview approach, which many viewers saw as both aggressive and patronizing, was met by Ali with vociferous bluntness.
Numerous outlets covered reactions to the program, from St. Lucia to New Delhi.
But it’s a complex situation—so let’s dig in.
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Up first: The viral clip. In a key part of the much-longer interview, Sackur notes the economic potential of Guyana’s oil and gas reserves, then asks Ali if he’s considered the environmental impact. Ali fired back with facts about Guyana’s longstanding commitment to the environment—specifically its low deforestation and high biodiversity—before calling out the hypocrisy of the question.
Transcript:
STEPHEN SANKUR: Let’s take a big-picture look at what’s going on here. Over the next decade, two decades, it is expected that there will be $150 billion dollars’ worth of oil and gas extracted off your coast. It’s an extraordinary figure.
But think of it in practical terms: That means, according to many experts, more than 2 billion tons of carbon emissions will come from your seabed, from those reserves, and be released into the atmosphere. I don’t know, as a head of state, went to the COP in Dubai-
PRESIDENT IRFAAN ALI: Let me stop you right there. Let me stop you right here. Do you know that Guyana has a forest, forever, that is the size of England and Scotland combined? A forest that stores 19.5 gigatons of carbon, a forest that we have kept alive? A forest that we have kept alive-
SANKUR: Does that give you the right? Does that give you the right to release all of this carbon from-
ALI: Does that give you the right to lecture us on climate change? I am going to lecture YOU on climate change! Because we have kept this forest alive, that stores 19.5 gigatons of carbon. That you enjoy, that the world enjoys, that you don’t pay us for, that you don’t value, that you don’t see a value in, that the people of Guyana have kept alive.
Guess what? We have the lowest deforestation rate in the world. And guess what? Even with our greatest exploration of the oil and gas resource we have now, we will still be net zero. Guyana will still be net zero with all our exploration.
SANKUR: Couple of points. Powerful, powerful words, Mr. President, but a couple of-
ALI: No, no, no! I am not completed as yet, I am not finished as yet, I am just not finished as yet. Because this is a hypocrisy that exists in the world. We, the world, in the last 50 years, has lost 65% of all its biodiversity. We have kept our biodiversity. Are you valuing it? Are you ready to pay for it?
When is the developed world is going to pay for it—or are you in the pockets? Are you in the pockets of those who have damaged the environment? Are you in the pockets? Are you and your system in the pockets of those who destroy the environment through the industrial revolution and are now lecturing us. Are you in their pockets? Are you paid by them?”
Here’s the complete episode of “HARDTalk” below, via the official YouTube channel for the Guyanese People’s Progressive Party/Civic. Captions are available by toggling on the “CC” button, found on the bottom left.
The comments section—which I usually avoid on YouTube—is over 2,300 strong as I write this. The vast majority are from the Caribbean, Africa, and South Asia, and applaud Ali for standing up to what many view as a representative of British colonialism talking down to a Black head of state. As such, it would be easy to dismiss the concerns raised by Sackur. However, it’s valid to examine both the Guyanese oil boom and the nation’s ties to Exxon.
On Sunday, environmental journalist and podcaster Amy Westervelt posted a very in-depth critical analysis of Guyana and oil for Drilled News:
The BBC, Guyana, and Untangling North-South Climate Complexities
An excerpt from a BBC interview with Guyana’s president Dr. Irfaan Ali went viral on social media at the end of this week. In it, Ali chides the BBC journalist (and, by extension, the Global North) for being hypocritical on climate and points to Guyana’s role as a carbon sink in the world. It’s a glimpse into the complexities of the North vs. South dichotomy on climate and a perfect example of why we actually need to grapple with them.
Based on the various reactions to this video, it’s clear that it’s still far too easy for folks to boil this down to a debate of development versus sustainability, or to the decades-old idea that “it’s only fair” for less developed countries to get a few decades to pollute for profit as well; after all the industrialized North did it. But the reality is: that’s not what’s happening in places like Guyana, Suriname, Uganda, and Mozambique, where the global fossil fuel industry is racing to exploit as much oil and gas as they can while it remains profitable to do so. These countries are not “getting rich” off oil any more than Nigeria got rich off oil (or Chad, or Venezuela, or any other less developed country hit by the oil curse since the 1980s). The only one getting rich off oil and gas, always and forever, are the transnational companies and state-owned oil companies that control the value chain, not the countries where the resources happen to be located.
[…]Climate reporters and climate advocates have both tended to miss the forest for the trees here. Rather than questioning President Ali on Guyana’s climate record or his decisions on oil, we should be questioning him on his relationship with ExxonMobil, whose executives are regular guests in the president’s box at the cricket stadium, where the Exxon-sponsored team plays, for example. We should be asking how Guyana ended up in the position of needing Exxon’s money to pay for climate adaptation, what role Exxon played in creating those circumstances, and what the Global North can do to hold these companies accountable…not what we can do to help them further plunder the Global South. To state what I hope is an obvious point: helping ExxonMobil get rich off Guyana’s oil is not justice, climate or otherwise.
Looking into both the current situation and its history, Guyanese American journalist and author Gaiutra Bahadur wrote an in-depth look into Guyana’s oil boom for The New York Times on Saturday. It’s a long read, but an illuminating one.
Is Guyana’s Oil a Blessing or a Curse? More than any single country, Guyana demonstrates the struggle between the consequences of climate change and the lure of the oil economy.
The world is at a critical juncture, and Guyana sits at the intersection. The country of my birth is a tiny speck on the planet, but the discovery of oil there has cracked open questions of giant significance. How can wealthy countries be held to account for their promises to move away from fossil fuels? Can the institutions of a fragile democracy keep large corporations in check? And what kind of future is Guyana promising its citizens as it places bets on commodities that much of the world is vowing to make obsolete?
[…]What dominates the local imagination now is oil and gas. During my stay in Guyana, I kept hearing the calypso song “Not a Blade of Grass” on the radio. Written in the 1970s as a patriotic rallying cry and a stand against Venezuela, which threatened to annex two-thirds of Guyana, it has made a comeback with a new cover version. (So, too, have Venezuela’s threats.) The lyrics, to an outsider’s ear, sound like an anthem against Exxon Mobil: “When outside faces from foreign places talk about takin’ over, we ain’t backin’ down.” But in Guyana, it has been invoked recently to assert the nation’s right to pump its own oil. The voices against drilling, however outspoken, remain isolated; the more passionate debate is over whether Guyana should renegotiate its contract to get a bigger take of the oil proceeds.
Oil is seen as such a boon that even questioning how it’s regulated can be branded unpatriotic. Journalists, academics, lawyers, workers at nongovernmental organizations and even former E.P.A. employees confided their fear of being ostracized if they spoke against petroleum.
Daily Kos has covered Guyana’s land-oil conflict with Venezuela in the stories below—including one by site founder Markos Moulitsas:
Want more? On Monday, NPR’s “Short Wave” reaired a previous episode about “the two sides of Guyana.” It’s a 15-minute listen, and well worth your time.
The two sides of Guyana: a green champion and an oil producer
For Guyana the potential wealth from oil development was irresistible — even as the country faces rising seas. Today on the show, host Emily Kwong talks to reporter Camila Domonoske about her trip to Guyana and how the country is grappling with its role as a victim of climate change while it moves forward with drilling more oil. (encore)
The viral response to Sackur’s interview has certainly enraged many people in and from the Global South, and it is doubtful that the majority of people reacting negatively will be sympathetic to legitimate concerns raised by long-term environmental activists.
Couple this with Caribbean demands that the Global North and former colonizer nations make restitution or reparations for both past and present injustices and economic imbalances, and it’s clear that the chances of any meaningful solutions to this issue in the near future are slim.
What do you think? Join me in the comments to discuss, and for the weekly Caribbean News Roundup.
